there’s still a lot about the u.k. that is inherently sexist
Yep, human condition, I think.
some of it is more overt (the topless photos inside the “newspapers”) and some of it is more subtle (the use of the endearment “love” in a pejorative and belittling way). margaret thatcher notwithstanding, there are still a lot of obvious inequalities and insidious patriarchal attitudes that pervade the culture. i was quite struck by it when i first arrived, and i am sad to say, it has since faded into background noise. because, well, i live here - and you just can’t spend all day every day in a black cloud of righteous indignation.
Nope. You can't. Plus some of this "background sexism" is obvious only when it's fresh. I think there's loads in American culture that we often just don't pick up on because we're raised with it and used to it. When you come in new to a place, the cultural assumptions are a lot more striking. Besides, I think the "love" thing is kinda sweet. As it's used in Yorkshire, you can tell it's not sexist - men, women, small children, the odd surly teenager are all called "duck" or "love" by men and women alike. The use is fading, but I still think everyday endearments are, well, endearing. Like anything, it can be abused and used in pejorative fashion.
Personally, I feel a bit freer here and less constrained by sexual and social stereotypes. Maybe that's living in London, maybe that's age and maturity. Maybe I've lived here so long I really don't notice anymore. All I know is that my home culture is still pretty darn sexist.
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Valid points. The US is by no means any utopia - and I'm not sure it's even any better than here. As you said, maybe the American forms of sexism are also background noise to me. And I *want* to like the "love" thing, but often there's an undertone to it that just rubs me the wrong way.
Sexism is everywhere, I know. I think it's just every once in a while that certain things bring the point home very poignantly - and for me, the rape statistics are one of them.
I am not sure that the biggest rape is not economic. It takes so many forms and hits each one of us. I am not saying it is worse, just even more pervasive.
A report was just published here on the treatment of new mothers, nursing, paid parental leave, etc. Of course the US was behind all economically advanced countries and many middle tier countries. This is a form of economic rape as well as the Social Security System which I could rant on and on about.
It squeezes women out of the job market (temporarily or permanently) or squeezes the life out of them by making them work over, over time. There is no real respect for motherhood in Western culture. Hence the mommy wars. Urgggggggggggggh. VolMom
I definitely think there's a lot more sexism here. Get out in the country; you'll see it.
What I especially hate is everyone calling me "Mrs" even though they're perfectly entitled to call me Kathy. That's a pet peeve with me, though. Ask my daughter's friends, who are immediately instructed upon meeting me to call me Kathy.
My experience of the US is that it's far more sexist than the UK. Gender roles seem far more rigidly demarcated in the USA, it seems much harder to be treated as an individual there. I think the British liking for eccentricity helps individualistic women like Vol Abroad (or Margaret Thatcher); the USA is far more conformist, both Left and Right.
The matter of which culture is more sexist is impossible to answer, but I feel there is a bit more hostility towards feminists in the UK -- and even the word 'feminist.' I think the whole issue of rape convictions in the UK is very important and reflects disturbing societal attitudes towards women. And would it kill people to use the title Ms.? This may seem like a minor point, but I actually think it shows an important difference between the two cultures vis-a-vis feminism.
I don't mind people using Mrs. - the once. But this is not a title that I use, please call me what I ask you to call me. I do agree with Anglofille that the continued insistence of using Mrs is an important indication. As is the matter of rape convictions - but criminals get away with all sorts in this country - including murder - so why not rape, too?
I disagree with VolMom with her use of the term "economic rape" - let us leave the term rape for non-consensual sexual acts and sexual assault. But - when it comes to what really matters to me - as a well-educated, middle class woman who makes her living by her wits - is money and career satisfaction. So yes, when I compare the maternity benefits that my cousins got (back at work 6 weeks after a C-section and a near-death pre-eclampsia experience) and what I'm going to get (I'll toddle back to work nearly a year after giving birth - fingers crossed) - I gotta say the UK is looking pretty darn good.
"the continued insistence of using Mrs is an important indication..."
You should respect our indigenous culture. >:)
I think a lot of this is more about cultural conflicts than inherent differences. The British are not particularly hostile to British feminists; or even Australian or New Zealand feminists I'd say, but can react badly to Americans due to a feeling of cultural imperialism.
"The British are not particularly hostile to British feminists; or even Australian or New Zealand feminists"
That said, we don't like being told that all men hate all women, or similar.
There may be something of a definitional issue. In high school my male, pro-feminist history teacher told me that a feminist was someone who believed that women should be allowed to do any job, by which measure I was and am a feminist. OTOH when I read academic works by feminists, feminism is defined as a rejection of male notions of objective, empirically ascertainable truth, a rejection of the Enlightenment and of the scientific method as a patriarchal conspiracy. I also remember a statement objecting to any discussion of feminism from an external aspect - "Feminists do not seek to make themselves objects of study", ie "The first rule of feminism is, you don't talk about feminism". The modern academic feminism I'm familiar with is openly hostile to western civilisation, so it's hardly surprising if western civilisation is hostile back. There may be strands of intellectual feminism with older roots that are not part of the cultural Marxist assault on Enlightenment civilisation, but I haven't encountered any still extant.
"I feel there is a bit more hostility towards feminists in the UK -- and even the word 'feminist.' I think the whole issue of rape convictions in the UK is very important and reflects disturbing societal attitudes towards women. And would it kill people to use the title Ms.? This may seem like a minor point, but I actually think it shows an important difference between the two cultures vis-a-vis feminism."
I agree with this.
Re: the "Ms." title, I often find that even when it's provided as an option (e.g. for my bank details) I STILL get correspondence addressed to "Miss".
I'm *not* a "Miss", dammit - I'm 34 years old. I'm married, but don't use the "Mrs." title because I don't think I need a title which only serves to indicate my marital status - something completely irrelevant to most of my practical daily life.
Re: the UK and feminism, I often feel they have the same knee-jerk reaction that they have to "political correctness", i.e. they see it as something uniquely politically, hyper-sensitively "American", and therefore worthy of disdain. That bothers me.
Yup, political correctness and radical feminism, both part of the Gramsci-Marcuse campaign to destroy western civilisation.
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